Keys to Creating a Future Ready High Performing Organization

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This is a podcast episode titled, Keys to Creating a Future Ready High Performing Organization. The summary for this episode is:

Kirsten Petras: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us today for our OnPoint webinar series. We will be discussing ways to create a future- ready high- performing organization. I'm Kirsten Petras with Oak Street Funding. Today, we welcome two guests from Wipfli, a top 20 consulting firm. First, Paul Lally, principal and national head of Wipfli's Wealth and Asset Management Industry Group, and Paul Leroue, the CMO and principal at Wipfli. They are leaders in working with companies to transform them into high- performing organizations, and in doing so, create an engaging group and to increase market value of that business. We're pleased to also get the perspective of Rick Dennen, our chief corporate banking officer and CEO of Oak Street, not only as a business owner but also from the seat of someone who as seen thousands of business enterprise organizational systems and operating systems, some of which have grown to make those companies the sought after employers, partners, and sources of best business practices. For those of you have attended an Oak Street Funding webinar before, welcome back. For those of you joining for the first time, thank you for making the time and welcome. As a courtesy to your attendees and the other attendees your phone lines will be muted, but we welcome and encourage questions. Thank you for submitting those during and as part of the registration process, but we also encourage you to ask questions live. So, please feel free to use the Q and A interface on the side of your screen, and we will attempt to answer as many as we can today. This meeting is being recorded. Within the next couple of business days, you will receive a followup email with a link to today's webinar, as well as our contact information if you want to continue the conversation. With that, welcome Paul Lally, Rick Dennen, Paul Leroue. Our team-

Paul Leroue: Thank you.

Paul Lally: Thank you.

Kirsten Petras: Thank you. Welcome, thank you. Our team spends quite a bit of time talking to business leaders about their best practices and where they think they could benefit from knowing more about having more of a structure, how they can attract top talent, how can they get their organization future- proof, how they can match the offers in the headlines that they see, put real value behind their businesses. So, from today's questions, we'll be answering some of those. Before we get started, I do want to give you an opportunity, Paul Leroue, to tell everybody about yourself, being the CMO at Wipfli.

Paul Leroue: Oh, okay. Wipfli is an advisor and accounting firm that has offices all across the country. It's a unique job, being a marketer in this particular industry. It's not traditionally a marketing- based industry, but we do do marketing. You know-

Rick Dennen: It's an oxymoron.

Paul Leroue: Right, sort of, sort of. We work with the middle market a lot, really building high- performance organizations. We work on both the strategy and advisory side and on the compliance side, both of those equally as part of our business model. Got to keep people safe on the compliance and the financial risk side, and you've got to challenge them and build high- performing organizations on the organization side. So, that's kind of what we do at Wipfli. Been doing it for 90 + years now, which is a long time. And we went through a variety-

Paul Lally: You haven't been doing it for 90 years.

Paul Leroue: Yeah, I haven't been doing it crosstalk. I would be way too far along, but close. We were founded in Wisconsin and we, over 90 + years, have transformed a couple different ways just to meet the growing needs of businesses and organizations. We work with about 80, 000 clients, small businesses and medium- sized businesses, across the country.

Kirsten Petras: Well, thanks for sharing that. To your point, we don't often talk to the CMO of the consulting practice. inaudible.

Paul Leroue: Yes.

Kirsten Petras: Paul Lally, you've been in the wealth management space for most of your career. Tell us-

Paul Lally: I'm not saying how long.

Kirsten Petras: Tell us a little bit about what you're doing here with us today and at Wipfli.

Paul Lally: Sure. My role at Wipfli, I've been doing this, I'll just say for decades now. I had the great opportunity to join Wipfli four years ago. As a firm, we go to market by industry, so construction, manufacturing, distribution retail. One of the largest industry groups is our financial services industry. As a firm, we just saw a void. I think everybody in this room would agree that financial services firms are getting bigger. They're moving now from a lifestyle to trying or figuring out how do I run a business? And then how do I take a business and create a high- performing business out of that? So, we made a strategic decision about a year and a half ago to create an industry exclusively focused on the wealth and asset management sector. My team is about 200 professionals, covering the gamut of advisory and solutions that Paul mentioned. Our goal every day we wake up is how do you grow, transform? And then, what most business owners want to do is perpetuate one of their proudest achievements into the future, being their business, and how do I do that?

Kirsten Petras: Yeah, absolutely. It's great. They do. Everybody that we serve in the insurance space, wealth management, even the CPA firms, I mean, they do need some guidance in this. So, it's great that there are resources like your teams to provide that. I would be remiss if we just didn't take a moment before we got into the questions that were submitted. Rick, I want to just ask you a question. Today, Russia invaded Ukraine. The stock market was down. It's up, it's down. Volatile, to say the least. Crude oil, gas prices, are going up. Just two words, if you could sum it up in two words, it's just global disruption. Before we get into the questions today about how people can do some things to better their businesses, any perspective on what business owners should do to mitigate this disruption as it might affect them?

Rick Dennen: I'm glad I'm not limited to two words. I would say, when you think about this, probably what comes to mind, for me, is one of the hottest topics right now is inflation. It recently just got supported, I think, either this morning or yesterday, at the 7% rate. When you think about that, energy was 2% of that. Core products were 2%, core services 2%, and food was 1%. Immediately, you think about energy and crude prices, which went up in over$ 100 bucks a barrel today, first time since 2014. I know it's back down now, where that settles in, but energy prices, energy inflation, is going to continue to go up but also your commodity- type products. You think about 7% being too high and then the Feds impacting that by interest rate offsets to slow things down, well, that's going to be accelerated. So, right now, there's seven interest rate changes being built into 2022. The meetings and what's expected in the market, I think, is 6.5 changes. So, that's roughly about 1. 75% to 2% of rate changes for the year, which could be impactful for a lot of businesses and how that might impact it. Things are settling down a lot different than what they were at the beginning of the day, and I suspect that will continue. But some of the inflation's going to accelerate even more now.

Kirsten Petras: Well, as we said the last time you and I were together, preparing for these rate changes, keeping your eye focused on the long- term return for your business investments, it's a balance and a blend. It could sound pretty scary today, but if you sit back for a moment and really try to think, " Is this enough to stop the direction of my company?" I'm going to go with it's possibly not a no for the businesses we work with quite a bit, but things could be-

Rick Dennen: Well, if you think about interest rates, even if they go up 2%, they're at an all- time low today. So, even if they go up 2% and that's your cost of funds, if you compare that to your cost of equity, which is 25% to 40% in a lot of different cases, it's not going to alter your strategy, in my opinion. Some of the commodities- type businesses may be impacted more with their costs with 30% increases, versus a 1% to 2% increase of interest rate. So, I think to your point, I agree with you.

Paul Lally: I wanted to add on, too. I think for most business owners now, because we're just coming out of a disruptive event, I mean, we're coming out of COVID and now what happened today, is it's incumbent upon the business owners now to really plan. We talk about strategic planning or the conversation today being future- proofing your business. Having no plan is a plan. The plan is you have no plan. Something's going to happen, voluntary, involuntarily. The plans that you need to create is less aspirational and more action- oriented, because it's great to say, " Our firm's going to keep growing," or, " We'll keep doing these things. We'll keep getting better," but you have to address the what ifs. Right now, I think contingency planning for a lot of businesses around the, " What if this happens?..." Now, sometimes they think they're wasting our time. " Well, I'm never going to use this plan." But the need to change, the need to react so quickly now, how things change? I mean, this morning? Things change so quickly. You can't just do that ad hoc. You've got to have that what if. Now, no one could predict today, but to have these what if scenarios planned out so you can react quicker, because most of the firms we talk to, they're professional services. They work with people, so they're going to need to be able to address it themselves and then help address it with their clients, as well.

Kirsten Petras: Yeah, great point.

Rick Dennen: Absolutely.

Kirsten Petras: Great point. Action-orientated is critical. We all thought we had plans. Those plans made sense until the plan had to contend with a pandemic that put us all in our homes for almost a year for some people. Paul Leroue, until we sort through the crosstalk-

Paul Leroue: I know, I know.

Paul Lally: Paul squared. Paul squared.

Paul Leroue: I'll take another name for the day, if you want.

Kirsten Petras: Let's get started, though, with some conversations about how to take those actionable steps. What makes a high- performing organization?

Paul Leroue: Paul and I have been working on this together for several, now, and so we'll probably both say it differently. We've identified seven themes that we think flow through what creates a high- performing organization. Most of this was borne out of talking to our clients who said, " It's more of a holistic viewpoint than one or two things," that holistically, all these seven or eight things, when they work together, get you to the place. I'll give you a few of them, and then I'm sure Paul will give a few. Building a powerful vision and plan. We have people that we work with who don't have a vision, or they have a vision and no plan, or they have a plan and no vision. I would say that's an important element. Thinking and being a transformational leader. There's a very different leadership style that works today than worked 10 or 15 years ago. And so, we spend a lot of times talking to leaders about how to have a transformative leadership style and how to integrate that and develop leaders at every level of the organization. That's really super important. We spend a lot of times talking about brand. How you differentiate your brand, how do you make it different in the marketplace? What are your uniques? What are your differentiators? Are you talking about that in a way that the market responds? Those are just three or four of them that we've been working on. I'll let Paul touch on a couple of them. This whole philosophy that we've been talking about over time is what we call How to Keep Your Business in Prime. If you think about an athlete, when they're in prime they're at their peak. Think about your business being in prime. What does it look like to be in prime? Not just to be in it, but to maintain it and stay in it, because you can go out of prime really quick. If you're an athlete, you might have two prime years. Well, if you run a business, you don't want to have two prime years, you want to have 10 prime years. And so, we spend a lot of time talking about business prime. I'll let you, Paul, because you probably want to add.

Paul Lally: Yeah, there's a prime where you have the components of prime, but when we think about, " What is a prime organization? When is the firm in its prime?" well, that firm or organization, it's at its most viable, stable, sustainable, profitable. Which, for business owners, it gives them choices. It makes it at its most transferrable, at its most highest value, it opens up further growth opportunities. Just to touch on the other-

Rick Dennen: We referred to that, here, as we were growing as institutionalizing the crosstalk.

Paul Lally: Well, I was just going to say, the first decision firms have to make, and there's not a right or wrong answer, it's a personal decision but a lot of times firms will confuse it, " Am I building just a really good lifestyle for the owners of the firm, which generates great income for ourselves and we have a good time doing what we're doing? Or, am I actually trying to build a firm?" Because, at the end of the day, every business is going to transition. Transitioning a lifestyle is a little harder than transitioning a business, but this is a tough inaudible. Some of those other components is you have to have invested stakeholders. You have to have not just the leadership team believing in this future or this vision, your staff has to believe in it. They have to be aligned. Your vendors, your accounting firm, your bank, your law firm, your customers, clients, they've got to want see you succeed in doing that. And then, we're talking around then financial confidence. It's amazing, we predict things. We want to predict them and we want to look out, but we talk to a lot of business owners, they see how their business is doing today and they're saying, " Okay, this is what my business is worth today," or, " This is where I..." The real question is, " Are you financially confident in that business as it goes forward?" How you lead off the conversation, Rick, is in financial services, there's a large segment of the financial service market that is correlated to the performance of the market. So, the business goes... So, as you institutionalize, how are you buffering against the corelation of the market? You can't do it 100% for a lot of firms, but you can think about, " What else can I be doing to buffer and keep my firm viable doing that?

Paul Leroue: crosstalk-

Kirsten Petras: Your first statement was around vision and plan. I apologize to interrupt you.

Paul Leroue: Sure, no.

Kirsten Petras: I wanted to ask you, specifically, Rick, as someone who's worked with you for a number of years, now. We always have a vision here at Oak Street. We always have a mission here at Oak Street, and we put together a plan. Sometimes we stick with it really really solidly, and sometimes we need to pivot.

Rick Dennen: Like we did in COVID.

Kirsten Petras: Like we did in COVID.

Rick Dennen: In 2020, yep.

Kirsten Petras: Exactly. One of the questions that came in, though, and I think this makes sense, " Do I need a mission statement," and let's add vision statement, " for my insurance agency?" I'm going to make an assumption that this is someone that probably has three or four employees, not 100, not 2, 000. Is there a benefit for a business that size to have a vision?

Rick Dennen: What I would say is I'm going to go back to something Paul said-

Paul Lally: Which one?

Rick Dennen: Paul inaudible. Paul Lally. In that, when you think about" institutionalized," is it a lifestyle business or is it an institutionalized business? I would say, for a lifestyle business, do you have to have one? Maybe, maybe not. For an institutional, if you're trying to go... I always think of strategy as what are your short- term goals and what are your long- term goals? Your strategy is how do you get from A to B. So, if you have that institutionalized approach to what you want to accomplish in your business, absolutely, I think you need the mission, vision, values, as we talk about it. Those can evolve over time as your business evolves, but it's good to have, I think, a mental mindset to align bankers, lawyers, everybody. Employees.

Paul Leroue: If you do it at four people, when you get to 400 people you will have mastered the discipline. It doesn't really matter what size you are. It's starting that discipline really early on. Plan ahead, look ahead, think about a future state, be able to call audibles. We all called audibles in our business in the last two. Some people called audibles this morning. Your ability to be agile and build that kind of model is easier if you have a plan. If you're starting from scorched earth every day and you're trying to be agile and you're trying to call an audible, that's called chaos. That's where you don't want to be.

Paul Lally: My father was very successful in construction for many years. When I started my firm years ago, I asked him, I said, " Dad, now, what's the key? When do you know you're a business owner?" He goes, " Your first hire, you're now a business owner, because somebody else's livelihood is dependent upon you."

Paul Leroue: You.

Paul Lally: So, it's critical. As Paul said, when you have two people, Rick, three, four, you get the fourth, you have to know where you're headed because there's other people relying on you that they're confident in where you're headed with the business.

Rick Dennen: Yeah. I'm going to say, before you go on, too, another comment was when you talk about these pillars of success you guys have... What's your acronym that you guys use for-

Paul Leroue: Prime?

Rick Dennen: Yeah, prime. I would say, as we have transitioned from a piece of paper to going through three different financial ownerships to a strategic, I would say the most difficult part of that prime was keeping your employees focused as if they're owners. How do you do that as you continue to add and you go through three or four different ownership changes? It's like that, I'll call it, engagement of your employees. You've got to maintain and you've got to-

Paul Lally: Absolutely.

Rick Dennen: Kirsten, you've seen as we've evolved. I think you've been for, what, three of the four of them? It's just, the cultures change, times change, and now you've got this remote work environment that you're trying to deal with. To maintain that focus is you want everybody to be an owner and to have passion, commitment, and engagement. It gets harder and harder.

Paul Lally: It's you start a business. You start a business, you get lucky, you don't fail, you start building the business. crosstalk. But why it's so important to know where prime is for your business, because it's also alignment. Over time, people just become naturally misaligned in the various components. To be able to transition or maximize value or keep finding and attracting and retaining good people nowadays is a conversation we are have... Sometimes it's like a marriage. You've got to step back and go, " Are we really still aligned in our core..." or, " Where are we misaligned?" But knowing where that misalignment is to get realigned.

Kirsten Petras: Exactly.

Paul Lally: And keep pushing that vision forward.

Kirsten Petras: That's such a perfect transition because you basically answered this next question, but somebody submitted it so I want to give it its due. It did say, " With the changes in motivation factors amongst employees, the drive of employees, in general, in younger ones. How do I keep them aligned?"

Paul Leroue: I'll throw the thing out that I think we should throw out right away, which is the younger generation is not as energetic and driven as we are.

Kirsten Petras: crosstalk.

Paul Leroue: So, let's throw that out, because I think we're dealing with a four generation workforce for the first time in our history. First time in our history we've had four generations working together. That causes problems, just by nature. You're leading people that are the same age as your kids. That's very very different for us as a leaders of organizations to have to do. When we talk about having a powerful vision and having invested stakeholders, it's giving your team a part to play in your success and rewarding them for that part. I think we forgot about that along the way, that some of our business success has been because of our individual success, for sure, but we forgot that a lot of people that got us there are the people that we need to involve more in our future, bring us more together. So, we really push that invested stake... That's what we call invested stakeholders. These are all the people in my organization, outside my organization, helping make my business successful.

Paul Lally: Yeah, and you think about that, too, is a lot of the four generations, the boomers, the Xers, the Ys, the Zs, and keep going on and on now, we all communicate differently. It used to be, as a leader, " I'll tell you just enough you need to know to do your job." And I-

Paul Leroue: That's probably what it was when we all started, yep.

Paul Lally: It was.

Paul Leroue: That type of crosstalk.

Paul Lally: "Go doyour job and if you're here in six months, we'll still talk to you," was basically how we started in business. But now you look at it and you say that, " There's a mistake in thinking that next generation isn't as productive, they're not as engaged." They just work differently now. I think, as business owners, we need to be able to communicate and be more transparent in our communication. I won't tell you everything I'm thinking, I'm not going to lie to you, but I will communicate better. I think that's key with driving these generation crosstalk.

Paul Leroue: Yeah. This is a generation that has defined work/ life balance, I know that's hard for us sometimes, as a major priority in their life. I came from the boomer generation. I can tell you, we didn't have work/ life balance. It was work.

Rick Dennen: That is your balance.

Paul Leroue: Right. Balance was gone. I honor that as a real opportunity for us to get more people involved and understand that that's just going to be part of the game going forward. We have to think about different things like gig workforces, flexible time off, allowing people to work less than 40 hours if that works for them, like what's their 100% week? We can figure that out, as business leaders. We just didn't have to until now.

Kirsten Petras: Well-

Paul Leroue: Now, we have to think differently when we think about labor.

Kirsten Petras: You're speaking volumes away from your traditional CPA firm, let me tell you.

Paul Leroue: Exactly. Yeah.

Kirsten Petras: That is a shift. That's a cultural mind shift to engage the next generation because they are approaching everything differently. It doesn't mean it's any less valuable, its just different.

Rick Dennen: I don't just think it's the 20s and 30s that are. I mean, the 40s and 50s are now thinking differently.

Paul Lally: Oh, yeah.

Rick Dennen: With the timing the quality of their family and-

Kirsten Petras: You're looking at me?

Paul Lally: I was just thinking about myself.

Rick Dennen: But we've talked here and we stand up in meetings and say that work is not the most important thing. Your family is. And there may be other things, religion or whatever else, may be more important, as well. And so, now, it's like, " Put your money where your mouth is." You've said that, but we've got to figure out work/ life balance. Because you still have the same requirements and expectations at work, but yet you know you can get a good quality of life while working at home and still be productive. But there's a trust issue there, too.

Paul Leroue: Yeah. Lead outcomes don't lead to hours. I think hours were our benchmark, especially in the CPA world. I know hours are our benchmark. But at the end of the day-

Paul Lally: crosstalk.

Paul Leroue: ...what do we really want? We want our clients to be raving fans of our work, and that's outcome- based thinking. I think the more that we do outcome- based thinking, we get out of this mode that every hour is important. What I really care about, at the end of the day, is my clients come back next year and the year after and the year after and the year after, and that I'm counting the higher percentage of tenured clients I have every year. That's a proven track record of success.

Kirsten Petras: Well, and all of that starts by communicating and getting to understand the needs of all four generations. This works up and down the generations. One of our next questions is about someone who, it doesn't say before or after how it was, but currently, they're fully remote. Their people work very strongly independently. " My team is independent and fully remote. I want to know how to get my team working together cohesively." I think to this trust and the output, there's a lot of people who are very very good at being independent, working remote at the dining room table or their home office or what it is, but when you are doing that as an organization, keeping people aligned with the mission, vision, values of the company, what are some methods of communication or what's some of the ways to get to a prime level of doing that, too?

Paul Lally: Well, we've had to do this at our firm. When COVID hit, we had to mobilize 3, 000 people in seven days to go fully remote. When COVID first started, every conversation was a management meeting with a management conversation, whereas revenue, what are you doing, what clients you're working on? And then, you step back and that becomes, just, frustration. We now have weekly standup meetings where it's just a half hour of people getting on the phone just talking about the business, just talk about, " Hey, what are you seeing this week? What's the gossip and rumors you're hearing?" It brings everybody together. In my group, I passed a rule: No more off video. If you're on the call you're on video, because I said, " If I'm sitting in a conference room, it would be like putting a blue dot in front of your face." We want to see you. We want to engage. We're doing scrum calls, which are just on clients. Just 15 minute zap- ins, a, " Hey, what's going on? We don't need to go into detail, just catch us up." We're getting out a little bit more. We are encouraging happy hours again, because-

Paul Leroue: You always have, though, Paul.

Paul Lally: I lead the happy hours. That's why I encourage them. But-

Kirsten Petras: crosstalk.

Paul Lally: We have associates who have started with us who have never met their other associates, so it's really bringing everybody together once a week, not just to talk about business. Work on the business, not just about working in the business.

Paul Leroue: We do check- in calls where we call someone to just, for five minutes, " What's going on? How are you doing?" Nothing about work. " What's going on in your life? Anything we can help you with? Anything you need?" To your point, there is an intentionality that you have to take now. We're all fatigued from Zoom and Teams. It's exhausting, after an eight hour day. I find we never give enough breaks in the day. I go from one Zoom meeting to one Teams meeting to another.

Paul Lally: crosstalk.

Paul Leroue: I might have two minutes to run out of the room and back. I'm a little afraid, if you look at the numbers, the research is showing that people are not as engaged and not as connected and therefore feel not as connected to the culture. We have to come up with some new methods for that. There has to be some intentionality to correct that, because the early research coming out of COVID is a little stark around that. So, we do have to talk about how do we build community in a virtual environment? What does that look like?

Rick Dennen: Well, you talk about the new norms that are being developed, like you said, and it's like certain people with people you get on those Zooms calls, and it's like everybody's up, you see their faces. And then there's other calls where you look and there's not a single face. It's 17 black screens, and everybody's just talking like a conference call. So, how do you establish those and still connect when, the latest stat I've read, is 3% of people right now want to be back full- time, which is five days a week. 3%, which is a pretty small number. It's going to evolve, I think, over the next year or two. I don't think anybody could write a book today and say, " This is how it's going to work best."

Paul Lally: You have to be agile. You have to be so agile now. I think each organization is different. We have our way of doing it. You folks have your way. There's no best practices of doing it, because everybody's figuring... It's what's working for you. And keep testing. Don't grasp onto it and say, " We won't change the way..." You've got to be agile right now inaudible communication.

Paul Leroue: I think upper, as well as the staff, have to be agile as people are trying to figure this out.

Rick Dennen: Yeah, and it's got to go both ways.

Paul Leroue: I would say relentlessly communicate. I do something called a Friday flash report. Every Friday, I send out a flash report to the entire staff and say, " Here's what went on during the week." Does that take a lot of time? Yeah. But do I do it every Friday? crosstalk.

Paul Lally: I actually read it. I actually read it.

Paul Leroue: It's literally just to keep people aligned, because part of it is we're not together so we're not aligned. It doesn't feel like we're one community, so you have to emphasize these points of building community and alignment again. We just have to lean into it. I think, to your point, there'll be different strategies for different people, but don't not-

Paul Lally: Don't not do it.

Paul Leroue: Don't sit back and go... Don't not do it, right.

Kirsten Petras: To your point on the Friday debrief, maybe that's a good first tip for this next question. It said, " We tried a performance operational system before. COVID threw it out the window." Makes sense. " How can I get them back on track?"

Paul Leroue: We use a 90 day pulse period evaluation of goals. We just give people 90 days. " In the next 90 days, what are three to five things you can do, as an individual, for the business?" We focus on the micro part of it versus the macro part of it. I think some performance systems are based on once a year. Once a year, you have a performance review. I think if you're measuring 90 day outputs, 90 day pulse periods, it's closer in, people feel like they're a part of it, and you can be very goal- oriented. You can measure performance off that pretty accurately, but I think the annual performance evaluation crosstalk-

Paul Lally: I got to talk, yeah.

Paul Leroue: We're running from it.

Paul Lally: Yeah. We have two coaches. Everybody has a coach. No matter what level they're at, you have a coach. You have a performance coach that is there for you 24/ 7, on call, and you have a growth coach, which serve two different functions. It can't be the same person. But it gives you that person to call and say, " Hey, I need to bounce this off to you. This isn't working for me. How do I make this work?" We've found those effective. I also think, too, performance measure, use technology. I mean, what I've found with most technology is we're quick to adapt it but we're very slow to utilize it. We're utilizing CRM, for example. We live on our CRMs. I mean, that's how we communicate. That's how we do our... But you have to use more than just as a, I'm going to date myself here, just as a Rolodex, because it's the date that's in it. Not just because you're entering names, what data can you glean, the data crosstalk-

Rick Dennen: That data should be getting better and quicker to you. We did the same thing, as you know, with quarterly updates and annual reviews, but the dashboards that we're using more than the metrics, we really spent a lot of time this year in trying to modify them so that they're more predictive of the future than they are a historical performance- type crosstalk.

Paul Lally: Yeah, Rick, you made a good point. No matter what you're using, the value in the dashboards. Build dashboards. Don't pick 100 key performance indicators. Pick the top six to 10 key performance indicators you want to walk in every day on your business, open up your laptop-

Rick Dennen: And know what's going on.

Paul Lally: ... andsee it right there in front of you.

Kirsten Petras: Well, I knew 30 minutes was not going to be enough for this-

Paul Leroue: Yeah, we need more time.

Kirsten Petras: crosstalk.

Paul Lally: We need more. Yeah, we've done-

Kirsten Petras: We have several questions that have gone unanswered. We will work on getting those answers out to you in a number of ways. I do want to thank everyone who joined online. Thank you to the three of you.

Paul Lally: Thank you.

Paul Leroue: Thanks for having us.

Rick Dennen: Thank you, Wipfli.

Paul Leroue: Absolutely.

Kirsten Petras: We're also excited because one of the ways you may get more answers, to announce that, on March 1st we're going to be launching our OnPoint podcast. You will have a chance to continue to hear from both Pauls and Rick throughout the year as they go ahead and share some greater insights with us through our podcast. You'll be able to find our OnPoint podcast anywhere you're getting your crime story podcast right now. So, just look for that here in the next several weeks. Thank you for joining us today. Be on the lookout for your invitation to our March webinar where we will be talking about becoming a serial acquirer, even if you're going to be independently owned and remain independently owned. And with that, I'd like you to have a great day. Thank you.

Paul Leroue: Thank you, Kirsten.

Rick Dennen: Thank you.

Paul Lally: Thank you.

Paul Leroue: Thank you.